Our Living God – The Savior of All (Pt. 1)

Join Beth Tikkun as we present a most unusual teaching. For the first time Beth Tikkun’s history we address the subject of hell. What do the Hebrew and Greek scriptures actually say about hell? Is it really true that eternal fiery torment awaits those who have not “accepted Jesus” in this lifetime? What is the history of the Church’s relationship to the theology of eternal suffering for the lost? This is sure to be a thought provoking lesson and one that may foundationally change the paradigm for many listeners.

Visuals: The Savior of All 

Categories Apostolic Writings, Audio, Matthew, Special Teachings | Tags: , , , | Posted on May 10, 2015

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22 Comments

  1. by Charlotte Gunther

    On May 10, 2015

    When i was in missionary college we were taught to answer the question, “are the heathen lost?” in the affirmative. Without Christ they were bound for eternal hell. The question always bothered me & i had no way to articulate the problem. Now maybe i do.
    It’s the wrong question. It smacks of 19th colonialism. It implies (and this is what motivated “foreign missions”) that unless I go to the heathen and snatch them from the pit they will burn forever in hell. Humanitarian work was acceptable and encouraged just so long as it involved preaching the gospel first.
    There were and are many loving missionaries who have not colonialized the “heathen” (unless perhaps it is now in the form of “church plant”) and the emphasis now is on enculturation, but the question still is “are the heathen lost”? The heathen being any who have never heard of Messiah Yeshua. And does “lost” mean to spend eternity in hell?
    Those who have never heard of Messiah, idol worshipers, those who dwell in darkness anywhere in the world — what is their condition without Christ? What is their future? Is it different from those who have heard and not obeyed Messiah in this world? What good, therefore, is a gospel preaching mission? have we been preaching a distortion of the gospel?
    Romans 5 says All are/will be “saved” — but in evangelical circles, this promise is conditional.

  2. by Carla Crous

    On May 13, 2015

    Dear Grant, I agree with what you say.
    My question: Does the Word only apply to the human beings? or does it also apply to the fallen angels and Lucifer? Will satan also bow his knee one day?

  3. by L. Grant Luton

    On May 17, 2015

    Carla, This is the “sixty-four dollar” question! Is Satan the ultimate prodigal son? We will have to see what happens in the future.

  4. by ellen de winnaar

    On May 14, 2015

    thank you so much for sharing this with us1 I am in awe. You end off in your prayer to a Scripture about the Father referring to our fathers committed their children into the fire, beyond what He would ever have thought of. This is the crux of the whole story. I missed the Scripture reference of this, Can you please forward it to me? Thank you Grant. ellen from Kroonstad in SA

  5. by Tom Rudd

    On May 16, 2015

    As I listen, I have questions about “Ages”.
    Sodom, may be referanced, in the spiritual and not the physical.
    As well as, Gehenna.
    The physical, “elements” will be consumed in a fervant heat, but the Spirit will live on.
    I am struggling with this subject, too.

    At this time, In am half way through the message.
    t

  6. by Tom Rudd

    On May 16, 2015

    It dawned on me that fire “purifies” and “Some are barely escaping the fire.”
    Baptism by fire also eludes to a purification from sin.
    Perhaps, the fire of purifcation is for a certain age, depending on your life,
    whereas some, DO descend into the lake of fire with the satan, and never will be forgiven.
    Yeshua, does use this illustration, as does Moses, where an impure person, remains outside the camp, until the time of their purication ends.
    t

  7. by L. Grant Luton

    On May 17, 2015

    Tom, Your question is very timely and the exact thing that I address in the second part of the “Savior of All” series. In this second part we look particularly into the concept of the Lake of Fire.

  8. by Dane

    On May 21, 2015

    OK, I’ll stray from the earlier line of comments and say I don’t agree. I would acknowledge that the place of destruction isn’t a place of ever-ongoing torment, but that doesn’t mean that the destruction is not complete and those who are wicked are gone. The idea of Jude saying, “Eternal fire” for Sodom meant that that the effect is eternal, not that it burns forever. Logically, if those who live it up rejecting G_d are given the same benefits eventually, those who forgo those pleasures are the ones who are really being punished. Also, Malachi 4:3 says that the wicked will be ashes to be tread under foot.

    It’s good that you’ve held off teaching on this. I’ve noticed that those who start are sucked into an inability to get away from the topic as the rest of their ministry gets hijacked on defending it or expanding on it. I hope it doesn’t expand beyond 2 messages. Such a philosophy is fine for you to believe, and if you’re right, I’ll be very relieved. On the other hand, if you’re wrong it will lull the semi-complacent into state of expanded complacency. We can’t afford that.

  9. by L. Grant Luton

    On May 24, 2015

    Dane,

    Thank you for your honest and open response to the teachings. As to annihilation, I do consider that to be a viable alternative — and it is definitely more merciful than everlasting torment in “hell”! However, I must strongly disagree with your comment that those who “live it up” by rejecting God means that “those who forgo those pleasures are the ones who are really being punished”. I mean, have you ever met a willful sinner who was truly happy? The only people I know who have genuine joy in their lives are the ones who do “forgo those [sinful] pleasures”. But your comment reflects one of the questions I received, and address in the third teaching, which is “What is the advantage then of being ‘in Messiah'”? I think the scriptures that address this issue make it obvious that those who give their lives to God in this life are far and away the winners both in this world and the next. After all, these are the ones who become members of the Bride of Messiah. What an honor!

    As to your concern that this teaching, even if correct, could “lull the semi-complacent into a state of expanded complacency”, I have only seen the exact opposite occur. I speak of this in the third teaching, but I wish I had time to share the many testimonies of people whose complacency was replaced by enthusiasm to serve a God Whom they now realized could be loved and trusted fully to accomplish His purpose for creation. In fact, I have not yet met a person who has grown complacent by embracing this theology. However, I have met several who had abandoned their service to a God who could consign the vast majority of souls to eternal torment in hell. (Which, of course, I know you do not believe in either.) Over the last couple of weeks I have heard from many who express a renewed spiritual joy and enthusiasm to serve such a great Savior.

    Shalom & Blessings,
    Grant

  10. by Elsa

    On June 17, 2015

    Dear Grant,
    Thank you very much for this so important teaching.
    Of course everything came out of YHVH and everything has to go back to HIM.
    Rom. 11,36 “For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory into the ages. Amen.“
    As we read in Luk. 14,28 of course G-d counted the costs of his project and in Ecc. 7,8 the end of a thing is better than its beginning.
    The purpose of creation is the increase of YHVHs glory.
    He is the father of lights (Jam.1,17) the lights went dark, but they have to be light again because He sat an end to darkness (Job 28,3)
    As the end of a thing is better than its beginning, the light will shine in the end brighter than before. We all were once darkness, but now we are light in the Lord (Eph. 5,8).
    YHVH has all time HE needs to accomplish HIS purpose into the ages.
    There is no place for an everlasting torment or also for annihilation, because HIS plan is perfect.
    Love is stronger than everything else and will reach His purpose.
    What is the real victory: to destroy your enemies or to get them to love you.
    Love will win.
    Of course we have all to go through judgments, but through judgments the sinner will learn righteousness (Isa 26,9-10)
    Since I understood this topic some years ago I am so happy in my belief.
    Thank you again for addressing this so important subject.
    YHVH bless you
    Elsa from Germany

  11. by L. Grant Luton

    On June 18, 2015

    Dear Elsa, Thank you for your comment and encouraging words. They are a blessing. I was not aware that we had listeners in Germany! So, welcome, and thank you again for sharing your thoughts!

    Shalom & Blessings,
    Grant L.

  12. by Emily Moreno

    On January 20, 2016

    Hello, Grant. This is Emily Moreno. I have not written to you in some time. The last time, my family was China bound. We are back. But that is another story for another time. I trust you and Robin are well. I will send you all a personal email soon. I have been greatly impacted by this teaching in a very positive way, but I have passed it on to my mother, however, and she is labeling it as universalism. Can you speak to this idea please? She believes that universalism is heresy.

  13. by Alan Howes

    On September 18, 2016

    Hi Grant, I love your teachings, they are very insightful. Just a couple of things. The following scripture seems to infer that there are those who are blessed and those who are cursed including the devil and his angels. ‘Then shall he say also to those on the left hand, Go ye from me, the cursed, to the fire, the age-enduring, that hath been prepared for the Devil and his messengers; Matt 25:41.

    Also isn’t salvation for those who believe?? for I am not ashamed of the good news of the Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation to every one who is believing, both to Jew first, and to Greek. Rom 1:16

    Shalom, Alan. UK

  14. by L. Grant Luton

    On September 18, 2016

    Alan, Thank you for listening, and I am so glad that you are enjoying the teachings. Thanks, again. Yes, Matt.25:41 does infer that there are those who are blessed and those who are cursed. No question about that. But, life or death, blessing or curse, are the choices we continue to make throughout our lives. When ego gets entangled in our decision making, we will choose death and curse. But, when love and humility are present, then life and blessing are the result. The purpose of the fire is to cleanse souls of ego so they can reconnect to their Source. As to salvation for those who believe, remember that the demons also believe (but I don’t think salvation will result from their “faith”). Pauls states that the ‘good news of Messiah’ is the power of God to salvation for those who blieve. Belief is merely the starting point. Look at John 1:12 – “…He gave authority to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name.” The question is, did they exercise that authority or not? Also, look at John 8:30-32 – “As He spoke these things, many came to

      believe

    in Him. So Yeshua was saying to those Jews who had

      believed

    Him, ‘IF you continue in My word, THEN you are truly disciples of Mine; and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free.'” Again, here we see that believing is the starting point, not the finish line. Does this make sense? Shalom, Grant

  15. by Alan

    On September 18, 2016

    Thank you Grant for your reply. I have no problem that believing is the starting point for all of us. In fact my understanding of John 3:16 is that if you ‘go on’ believing you will inherit eternal life.
    So, to inherit eternal life one has to believe and go on believing in order to get over the finishing line. Correct me if I’m wrong but in this teaching you are saying that ‘all’ will inherit eternal life whether they believe or not.

    I’m drawn to this teaching because I like many others find it difficult to believe that God would torment someone from age to age. However I don’t want to read’ into’ scripture my own emotional stance on any subject and as you are well aware that can be a danger for any of us.

    Rev 20:10 The devil was thrown into the lake of fire… for a purpose? So that he too may be purified? These are just questions that are going round for me at the moment. Many thanks. Shalom. Alan

  16. by L. Grant Luton

    On October 2, 2016

    Alan, Thanks for your questions. They are not easily answered, but let me begin by making sure we are on the same page. First of all, we must rid ourselves of the notion that “saved” merely means going to Heaven when I die; and “lost” means going to Hell when I die. “Saved” (or “rescued”) is about living a life that is free to follow God here and now. Remember, the Bible never says Yeshua came to save us from hell, but from sin. Thus, to be saved means that I can live a righteous life NOW. My relationship with my Creator has been restored, and I am no longer in exile from Him — or ‘lost’. His grace saves us, but we enter into that grace through faith (which, itself, is a gift from Him). Those who choose to enter into a faith relationship with God now, in this world, become part of the “Bride” as we await the appearing of our Redeemer. This kind of life is called chai olam, which is often mistranslated as “eternal life”. True, chai olam is eternal, but it is so much more than just unending existence. It is a quality of life that is lived on a higher level. And, yes, faithfulness is absolutely necessary to maintain this kind of living, just as a bride-to-be must remain faithful to her betrothed while she awaits his coming. On the other hand, those who choose not to enter into this faith are not part of the Bride, and they live their lives according to what is right in their own eyes. So, the real question is: who is part of the Bride? Who has accepted Messiah’s proposal? Who is living in faithful aniticipation of His coming? These are the one experiencing chai olam now! But, concerning those who reject His proposal will, the Word says that in the New Jerusalem (in the New Heavens and New Earth), “The nations will walk by its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their splendor into it. It’s gates will never close, they stay open all day because night will not exist there, and the honor and splendor of the nations will be brought into it.” (Rev.21:24-26)

    As to Satan’s eternal destiny, I am waiting to find that out.

    Shalom & Blessings, Grant

  17. by Alan Howes

    On October 3, 2016

    Many thanks Grant for your reply. The whole ‘saved’ subject is a very interesting one. Certainly if you are a part of the evangelical world which I am, that is what i was born again into then saved does mean saved from eternity in hell.
    We are saved from our sins through Yeshua’s death and resurrection so that we can serve Him NOW and also be a part of the Bride which awaits the eternal Kingdom. So presumably those who are written in the book of life Rev 20:15 are those who are a part of the bride. Those not written in the book of life are those who are a part of the nations that walk in its light. However, it does say ‘the nations of those ‘who are saved’ shall walk in its light. Does this mean those who are saved by going through the lake of fire?

  18. by Ronald Adams

    On April 12, 2018

    Shalom Grant. Thank you for this teaching. You have answered many questions on this topic.i Have one question about the word forever. You mentioned that There is Another word in the Greek for forever that is not used when speaking of the lake of fire. Could you please point me to this word. Sorry If you mentioned it in the teaching but I don’t remember.

  19. by L. Grant Luton

    On April 15, 2018

    Ronald, I think the Greek words you are asking about are panteles (Hebrews 7:25), which means “all time”, or eis to deinekes (Hebrews 7:3/10:1,12,14) which means “continuous, perpetual”. Hope this helps!

  20. by Michael Moore

    On January 17, 2020

    Grant,

    Thank you for this teaching, which has been an enormous blessing to me. Over the past week I’ve read The Inescapable Love of God and started Hell: A Final Word, which have provided as many new questions as answers – in this case I think a good thing!

    For the sake of brevity I’ll try to limit my questions here to only one: What role then does faith play in our salvation? You say multiple times throughout the series that this is not an alternative way to salvation – that we are still saved by sheer unmerited grace which came by Yeshua, who says himself that “No one will come to the Father except through Him.” This is the only way. Praise God for providing it! Raised Arminian, I’ve never had an issue accepting the idea that we play some role, though entirely passive, in the fulfillment of this “way” by believing that Yeshua is Messiah. Though Talbott has done a wonderful job leading me to question the idea that God needs my permission to reach me with his grace, I am still troubled by the undeniable mention of faith in verses like Ephesians 2:8-10 and Romans 3:23-28, which mentions both that we are justified freely and that both the atonement and justification are received by “pisteos,” a word that appears to imply a sort of “covenant loyalty.”

    I listened to your recent message on Ephesians 2 and you made brief mention of considering Paul’s use of the word “faith” as “faithfulness,” specifically that of Yeshua, but it was just a quick mention I was hoping maybe you could elaborate on or suggest a resource that would help me consider this further. In my reading, even if this is the right way of thinking, it appears that there are instances where Paul mentions the necessary “faithfulness” of followers. Necessary for receipt of grace? Or necessary as a response to grace?

    Additionally, Matthew 7:21-23 gives me pause in fully accepting that we are saved by grace but still judged by works, as well as the idea that Christ died to reconcile all, even those who lack that covenantal loyalty, to himself. I haven’t listened to your teaching on Matthew 7 yet, but I’m excited to see if you made mention of this dilemma in that message. Perhaps we are judged by both our faith and our works? Or perhaps our works, void of faith, are dead as James would suggest? Filthy rags? Maybe being sent away is only temporary, and that necessary faith in Yeshua can and will still be established in this temporary punishment? At this point I’m just thinking out loud. There’s a lot to digest here. Thank you for your wisdom and humility and faithfulness to truth.

    Shalom,
    Michael

  21. by L. Grant Luton

    On January 19, 2020

    Michael, Thank you for your comment and thoughtful questions. You ask three excellent questions: a-the role of faith in our salvation; b-Does Paul’s use of “faith/faithfulness” refer to God’s or to ours?; c-the relationship between God’s grace and our rewards. So, let’s take these in order.

    a- Your first question must be answered by reminding ourselves that salvation is not a question of who “goes to Heaven for eternity” and who “goes to hell for eternity”. Rather, if God is the Savior of all, then the question is who is going to be part of the Bride and who is going to be a member of “the kings of the earth” instead (Rev.21:24)? The answer depends upon who exercised faith/faithfulness in this life and who failed to do so. The day is coming when “at the name of Yeshua every knew will bow, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and that every tongue will confess that Messiah Yeshua is Master, to the glory of God the Father” (Phil.2:10-11). Those who are making such a confession here and now are part of the Bride. Those who refrain from doing so now will not be part of the Bride. Those who have given their lives to God are those who have said YES to His “proposal”, so to speak, and now must live in faithfulness – living in constant preparation and expectation of His coming. In other words, they are the “wise virgins” who have oil in their lamps and are thus prepared for His appearing (Mt.25:1-13). So, if we are believers, let’s live lives of faithfulness to our Savior and King!

    b-I don’t have a clear answer as to when we should interpret Paul’s use of “faith” as applying to our faith in God, or His faithfulness toward us. In such cases of uncertainty my practice is to embrace both interpretations (and maybe this is exactly what Paul wanted us to do!). So, let’s trust in God’s faithfulness to us, but let’s also be faithful in return. However, in Paul’s use of ‘faith’ in regard to salvation, there is substantial support that he had God’s faithfulness in mind.

    c-The best way I know to explain the relationship between God’s saving grace and His reward for our works is to use the analogy of a father and his children. Any good father will treat his children with unbounded love and grace. However, part of a good father’s purpose is to teach his children responsibility, self-control, and basically to become like their father. Thus, in the midst of his gracious treatment of his children, he also rewards right actions and punishes bad ones. Even punishment/discipline is part of his love and grace in his determination that his children become good.

    I hope these brief responses provide at least a meager answer to your excellent questions.

    Shalom,
    Grant

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